tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post4114562492227615470..comments2023-07-29T07:49:52.686-05:00Comments on INDONESIA'S URBAN STUDIES: Recent floods in Jakarta are strong evidence that urbanisation must be reducedDeden Rukmanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16412394582630188952noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-28846964616744907392007-07-12T01:32:00.000-05:002007-07-12T01:32:00.000-05:00i dont agree with the idea relocation, moving the ...i dont agree with the idea relocation, moving the capital to other aera, it will not solve the problem as long as the root problem is fporgoten.<BR/><BR/>new place soon and soon will have many problem like jakarta, croweded, dense population, traffic jam, criminal, air polution, etc. jakarta, the capital city, many interest meet here.<BR/><BR/>relocation is need much money too. <BR/><BR/>so, i thing the more important to do is, we mus seek the root problem and solve it. <BR/><BR/>sumedi<BR/><BR/>http://medsblognow.blogspot.commedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02067820529802730193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-45313502070777635652007-03-27T08:46:00.000-05:002007-03-27T08:46:00.000-05:00Do you have any idea why Paris is still in Paris, ...Do you have any idea why Paris is still in Paris, London is still in London, and Tokyo is still in Tokyo? Do you think they don't have similar metropolitan/ mega city problems as Jakarta, Bangkok, etc.? Putrajaya is not the case, remember Kualalumpur is not as big as Jakarta, Bangkok, Tokyo...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-6992791833695300612007-03-06T04:32:00.000-05:002007-03-06T04:32:00.000-05:00Relocating the capitol is easier said than done. A...Relocating the capitol is easier said than done. A good reasoning on the benefit and cost of the relocation would raise another endless discussion. <BR/>As pak Tjipto views, I also favor relocating some economic power through out the region. <BR/>And let alone Jakarta deal with the flood. Jakarta is supposed to be smart and capable to cope with this humiliating problem.dwiAgushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06621653020867353057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-69848888314595585782007-02-28T19:04:00.000-05:002007-02-28T19:04:00.000-05:00As a simple layman, I need to see a list of all po...As a simple layman, I need to see a list of all possible advantages in moving the capital. Simply saying that this relocation will solve centralization of economy and power is not enough. Also, it might be possible that this relocation will simply create a new center of power.<BR/><BR/>What I really want to see is a good distribution of economic powers througout the region. At this point I don't see that relocation of capital will guarantee this. <BR/><BR/>The question still remains: does separating the political power from Jakarta will be followed by decentralization of economy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-35351992506263933072007-02-27T15:27:00.000-05:002007-02-27T15:27:00.000-05:00Widya: Thank you for bringing the issue of plannin...Widya: Thank you for bringing the issue of planning up in your comment. Indeed, it is quite a challenge for those who are supporting the idea of capital relocation. Planning as defined by Friedmann as a systematic attempt to shape the future and link knowledge to actions in the public domain will get more challenging when there are instability and uncertainty. There are many ways to deal with uncertainty and risk in planning, but how far we can go with them? <BR/>As you said, we need to have strong vision in considering the idea of capital relocation. Vision is a choice and it is formulated through highly political process. Nonetheless, I would argue that politically and economically unbiased vision would lead to relocating Indonesia's capital out of Jakarta.Deden Rukmanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16412394582630188952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-212258417011416232007-02-27T14:42:00.000-05:002007-02-27T14:42:00.000-05:00If Malaysian can move their seat of power from Kua...If Malaysian can move their seat of power from Kualalumpur to Putrajaya, why can't Indonesian move the istanas to, say, Tenggarong? Social cost? Long term projection might explain how big the cost and benefit for such actions. Shifting the capitol does not mean shifting the capital. Keyword here is "Long Term". and good planning, of course. Vision, among other thing is the most important aspect.<BR/>And from here things start to fall apart. Indonesian are notorious for their instability and uncertainty. So, good bye the term "long term"<BR/>since long term planning and budgetting assumed stability and certainty. So forget about the cost and benefit projections because it will never give you even the farthest image of it.<BR/>Good planning? Aha, another sad story. We never had such, so we might as well forget about it either. Among other thing, lack of vision is key in this drama, while vision is what make the big difference between good planning and mediocre planning. Indonesian planning schools might have their share in this case, although other factors: political, socio-economic, or cultural, play and even bigger share in contributing to this chaotic planning situation.<BR/>And last but not least, since capital in Indonesia always moves in a closed circle around the political power, as history might suggests, then moving the capitol would affect the economy in a significant way. But not necessarily in a good way because the unpredictability of everyhing in Indonesia makes it very hard to predict anything. And more often than not, unpredictability give way only to unpleasant surprises. (I was never good in economy, so I would rest my case here. somebody can pinch in as they wish from this point onward.)<BR/>Then, moving the capitol to somewhere else might only create another "Jakarta". Wait some ten years or so, it will be flooded again. illegal housing shall abound almost at every corner of it. congestion. pollution. crime. shopping malls and rukos. bumpy ride of busways. motorcycles.<BR/>And the original Jakarta will stay the same, if not to say become worst.<BR/>So the chance for moving our capitol is to have two identical ugly Jakartas. Sounds pessimistic? Hey, after all I am Indonesian! And as far as I am concern, the world had never witnessed a successful fully-planned capitol. Look at New Delhi, Chandigarh, or Brasilia, although Washington DC might be a different case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-29138896473975702862007-02-26T18:03:00.000-05:002007-02-26T18:03:00.000-05:00Agus: Relocating capital out of Jakarta from the p...Agus: Relocating capital out of Jakarta from the point of view of a central government official like yourself is not an easy choice. I fully agree with your argument, however we need also to know how other Indonesian people especially those who live outside Jakarta or the island of Java respond to this idea. <BR/>I would argue that they would have different perspective. Anyone from outside Jakarta or Java would like to express your perspective?Deden Rukmanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16412394582630188952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919046404255213140.post-32116263264464644042007-02-26T17:06:00.000-05:002007-02-26T17:06:00.000-05:00Deden: moving state capital out of Jakarta? Why no...Deden: moving state capital out of Jakarta? Why not? Anyway, it will cost lots of money and may causing problems among central government officers like me. Can you imagine that tens of thousands of civil servants and hundreds of thousands of their families must think about many things like leaving jobs, new schools, new houses, etc. Government may compensate some (if it could), but the problem is not about money. Social problems must be considered as the key in officers' side.<BR/> <BR/>Other problem is about the readiness of the new location. To prepare the new capital, how will government finance it? Regarding to many problems we face nowadays, there are many things to take care of before thinking about a new capital, right? Anyway, why not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com